Jay:
Welcome to the dive table. I'm Jay Gardner and back with me is our fifth co-host of the season. Coming again all the way from across the country in beautiful Old Bay loving Maryland. Mr. Greg Wolf, Greg, how are you doing today?
Greg W:
I'm good man, good to see you again and be back on the show.
Jay:
back on the show. We were actually just joking about the fact that I thought episode one went really well and we had a, we have a good rapport, you know, together. But then you reminded me that's probably because we've almost killed each other a couple of times under the water. So.
Greg W:
Yeah, yeah, no, that's, I mean, it doesn't get any closer than almost being the cause of each other's demise on a really long period. And to say that it was multiple times within a week is probably an understatement because it was really only like five days.
Jay:
Yeah, yeah, I know. Good point. And we're referring to, of course, some technical training you and I took together and we're teammates on. And I think the funniest story from that, we could just tell the story because I think it's funny. You know, when you're doing some of this training, it's not just, you know, you're on a line demonstrating skills, right? That's not kind of the training you and I enjoy and get the most out. So you're,
Greg W:
Far from it.
Jay:
yeah, you're diving and then things happen. So your instructor, a good technical instructor is going to use the mistakes that you make naturally and take them to their natural consequence. Right. And, and then we need to solve those in as a team under the water, right. In the,
Greg W:
Mm-hmm.
Jay:
in the technical training. So the one that sticks out to me, there there's a couple of them, but one that I think was the funniest to me was, um, you know, I were diving along and, and obviously we're, we're going to have some deco later in the dive and. Off we go. And, you know, our instructor was really sneaky, was really good at us not noticing. I mean, he stole your entire Deco bottle at one point, and he went to do
Greg W:
Oh yeah, he took a diaphragm out of one of your regulators.
Jay:
your switch and your Deco bottle's gone.
Greg W:
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Jay:
Well, that's the story I was gonna tell you, tell was that we're diving along, and all of a sudden you're like, hey, I tried to get my attention. I'm like, hey, okay, what's going on? And you pull out your wet notes, and you tell me. You know, hey, he just stole the diaphragm out of your regulator on your
Greg W:
Clean it up a little bit.
Jay:
deco cleaning up. Yeah. What? You took my diaphragm. Like, okay.
Greg W:
You know, it's even crazier to me that I actually met a diver and I was telling this story to a month Sunday and I mentioned he was like, how did he do that? And I was like, I don't know. And he's like, well, you just take his glove off. And I was like, no, he was wearing dry gloves.
Jay:
Yeah, yeah,
Greg W:
He
Jay:
he full
Greg W:
did it
Jay:
on just
Greg W:
wearing gloves.
Jay:
popped it up. So the funny part is, is he caught you telling me. Right?
Greg W:
Yeah.
Jay:
He caught you. And so later you paid for it, right?
Greg W:
Oh
Jay:
Because
Greg W:
yeah.
Jay:
all of a sudden, here we go. We're at our Deco stop. I do my switch or whatever. I'll point to you. I think I was Deco captain. I said, I'll point to you. Go ahead and do your switch. And you reached down to do your switch and your bottle's gone. It's gone.
Greg W:
I'm gonna go.
Jay:
He stole your whole bottle, not just the diaphragm out of it. So now I know, we know as a team, because you saw it and gave me the information that I'm compromised because we can't breathe from my reg because I don't have a diaphragm in it and you don't have one anymore. And so
Greg W:
You know.
Jay:
it put the team in a pretty precarious situation to try and solve that underwater, which we did. And we figured out how to do with our third teammate. Um, in, in that moment, but, uh, I think that was a, that was a fun, a fun story other than that wasn't where we killed each other. That was where we, we got a little too cocky and thinking that we were, uh, we could, we could get in front of our instructor and solve it before the problem occurred and then got
Greg W:
Yeah,
Jay:
told,
Greg W:
that's
Jay:
you know, showed that's not
Greg W:
part of that training phase of knocking you back down a peg after you think you get into the motions.
Jay:
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Well, we can tell other stories of how we all almost killed each other later, but I thought that was a good one. So we've been through it before. You know, we've had lots of late night, early morning conversations in the past, and I think that's what made episode one great. So I'm excited about episode two,
Greg W:
Mm-hmm.
Jay:
which in this one we wanted to have a little bit more fun, and we got a heavy topic in like, you know, underwater archeology and trying to tackle that, we can look at our desert island dives. In other words, you know, there's the, the setup here is really simple. Back in the day, there was this radio show that I used to listen to all the time called desert island discs. And it was like, here's the disc that you would, you need to have with you. Literally the CDs, I'm dating myself. If you were stuck on a desert island to not drive yourself nuts with music. So obviously for me, I would not want anything near me, you know, like Margaritaville that way I can imagine being stuck on a desert island and
Greg W:
the
Jay:
only Jimmy Buffett is what's in the radio would be just like a That's like a version of hell. I don't want to be a part of
Greg W:
I take that to the personal offense because
Jay:
Do you, you're a Buffett
Greg W:
I love Jimmy
Jay:
fan.
Greg W:
Buffett.
Jay:
Oh gosh, yeah.
Greg W:
Actually, there's a dinner theater by us and we just saw the play Jimmy Buffett's Margaritaville like two or
Jay:
Oh
Greg W:
three weeks
Jay:
goodness.
Greg W:
ago.
Jay:
Have you eaten at a cheeseburger in paradise yet? That would tell me if you're a real fan.
Greg W:
No, but that was one of the songs that they did in the play.
Jay:
Oh, see, there's a whole restaurant chain called cheeseburger in paradise. You got to get
Greg W:
Yeah,
Jay:
you got to find
Greg W:
and
Jay:
some
Greg W:
I wonder if they like put bacon on there because then we can connect that to Kevin Bacon.
Jay:
Kevin Bacon. I'm sure Jimmy Buffett's been in some video with Kevin Bacon, we just don't know about it. So
Greg W:
Probably.
Jay:
it gotta be on YouTube somewhere. But for this one, we wanted to do our desert island dives as it relates to underwater archeology. So with that underwater archeology. So you and I have both picked three dive sites that we really wanna dive with a specific view of their archeological relevance and interest to us both. So
Greg W:
Mm-hmm.
Jay:
I think what we'll do is just kind of take turns, go back and forth and, you know, talk about these dive sites. What's the name of the dive site? Maybe if we know it, the profile of the dive, where is it located? And you know, what makes it interesting? Why is it interesting to you, Greg, or why is it interesting to me to dive this site? You know, and whether that be a week or a month or a day or whatever duration, what would be our ideal version of getting to dive this site? So. you ready to jump into the Desert Island Dives underwater archeology edition?
Greg W:
Sure. Yeah, let's do it.
Jay:
Alright, so desert island dies. Number one, underwater archaeology edition. Greg, what's and these are ordered necessary, like 123
Greg W:
Mm.
Jay:
and preference, they're just, you know, top three, and they might, you know, all fit into the same level of excitement and interest for you. But what's your first one on your list that you want to you want to die?
Greg W:
First one that I put down is gonna be the HMS Endeavor. I believe that's when they found it, it was what the leading hypothesis on it, last I read about is that it was one of five shipwrecks that they found off the coast of Australia as part of the Great Barrier Reef system. That, of course, being the famous ship of Captain James Cook. He was one of the first ones to make it to the east coast of Australia by ship. And the reason I picked this one is, one, for the historical significance. But two, it's my understanding that it was renamed the HMS Lord Sandwich.
Jay:
Yes
Greg W:
Yeah, so that was the first one I was learning about this shipwreck. I was like the Lord Sandwich was like I have to know more about it. So
Jay:
Yes.
Greg W:
that's I got to dive this thing. I got to go see why it is the Lord Sandwich.
Jay:
And it's right out north of like Goat Island, right? So yeah,
Greg W:
Yeah, I think so.
Jay:
there
Greg W:
Yeah,
Jay:
we go.
Greg W:
so it's very diveable. I don't know if there's any like legal protections around it that might stop people from diving it, but as far as I'm aware, it's still within recreational limits.
Jay:
Yeah, no, that's cool. The the interesting part there of the Earl of Sandwich, it's been weird. There was a whole thing around the Earl of Sandwich, like why we call sandwiches sandwiches, right, which is a weird thing. And it's because this Earl apparently this is the story, I guess, or the myth, liked a piece of meat between a slice two slices of bread, right? And so it became known as a sandwich. And because this Earl liked it that way. So that's the story,
Greg W:
I'm gonna go get some water.
Jay:
right? And what's funny, you brought it up, it's because I've actually been telling myself, so like no offense, Texas, no offense, Texas, because people in Texas are gonna be offended by this, I'm sure, natives at least. But to me, a Southern California guy, there's just, you can't hold a candle to Southern California Mexican food. You just can't. Like... Tex-Mex is good, it has its own amazing pieces and parts, but from what I think of Mexican food, like, you know, back here in San Diego, I'm just, you know, in hog heaven, as I can imagine it. But what's been weird, sorry, this is totally not diving off on a tangent, but what's been weird is I've really, like, in the last month or so, really gotten into, like, sandwiches. I don't know why, all of a sudden it's like, I want. craving a tuna sandwich that I can make or I'm craving a whatever sandwich. And, um, and so anyway, it's funny you bring up the Earl of sandwich because sandwiches have just been on my mind lately. And, uh, I dunno, see, it's all connected in some weird way in the universe that James cook the Earl of sandwich and Jay Gardner wanting to eat sandwiches and Kevin bacon, bacon on the sandwich.
Greg W:
I gotta correct myself. Yeah,
Jay:
Oh.
Greg W:
apparently the HMB Endeavor. Oh, that's interesting. So now I'm looking up where exactly it is because I thought it was one of those wrecks that they found in the Great Barrier Reef. But now some internet options are saying that it's somewhere in Rhode Island.
Jay:
Ah, interesting.
Greg W:
Oh, oh man, I gotta brush up on my maritime archeology.
Jay:
Ha ha ha!
Greg W:
Oh, I'm a horrible student. Oh man.
Jay:
Well,
Greg W:
All the-
Jay:
I think I have no idea, because
Greg W:
Yeah.
Jay:
this is not on my list. Isn't the HMB Endeavor the recreation of the ship?
Greg W:
Oh,
Jay:
And the
Greg W:
maybe
Jay:
HMS
Greg W:
that's
Jay:
is actually
Greg W:
the one that's in Rhode Island.
Jay:
the sunk? Yeah, I think that's the case. I don't know, we need to, you can, while I'm doing my next one, you can ask Google and then come back and tell me. But I think that's the HMS is the, replica, or eight I'm sorry, HMB is the regular
Greg W:
the HMB
Jay:
replica.
Greg W:
is irregular.
Jay:
And the HMS is the actual sunken ship that was commanded by James Cook. Yeah, Captain Cook.
Greg W:
Oh, no, this one's from CBS News right here. It says the famous endeavor of James Cook's legendary ship possibly found off Rhode Island. So
Jay:
Wow, interesting.
Greg W:
Australian
Jay:
All right, well
Greg W:
maritime experts.
Jay:
So why for you, wherever it is,
Greg W:
Wherever it is.
Jay:
wherever it might be, it might be here in San Diego, it might be in a Texas lake, you don't know. The mystery of it will intrigue
Greg W:
That's
Jay:
you.
Greg W:
history. History is constantly evolving. So maybe more evidence will show up and maybe it will be one of those five shipwrecks scuttled off of Australia.
Jay:
There you go.
Greg W:
Who knows?
Jay:
So what makes it interesting to you? Why that shift?
Greg W:
I mean it's a famous ship. You know everybody knows the name.
Jay:
Okay, we're having technical difficulties at 1319. Greg probably just closed the wrong window. and we'll wait for him to come back. Or I guess I could do mine. No, wait. It's not my tech.
Greg W:
Oh, there you are.
Jay:
All right, we're back.
Greg W:
Wow, that was weird.
Jay:
What happened?
Greg W:
I don't know.
Jay:
I thought maybe you closed out the wrong window or something, but you just
Greg W:
Oh,
Jay:
disappeared.
Greg W:
I might have.
Jay:
No, no worries. We'll wait. It says you're recording. We'll wait till we get a tick on your, oh, and you're uploaded. Okay. Good. We're good. Okay. So you were saying Elizabeth Arian.
Greg W:
Yeah,
Jay:
Elizabethan
Greg W:
no.
Jay:
era. There we go.
Greg W:
Yeah, I like the those old ship of the line style of sale and that age of exploration and discovery and I think there's a certain aesthetic to the old sailing ships of the day of the 1700s.
Jay:
Interesting. Do you have a preference between, you know, because I mean, there were their empire building happening in that period of history. So there was the Spanish, there were
Greg W:
Mm-hmm.
Jay:
the English, there was obviously the Dutch. And we're really kind of the main players, I would probably say, in that type of travel and trade. So do you have a preference on, you know, the Dutch design of the ship versus the English design or the, you know, Spanish design or no preference at all? and the Portuguese, that's right.
Greg W:
The Portuguese were very much into shipbuilding. They had some very high quality ships back then. In fact, a lot of, like in the Middle East, a lot of what was like the caliphates back then, even caliphates in Spain, way, way back in the day would actually go to Portugal. to study ship building because of how renowned they were. So I think a lot of them were very similar in some ways as far as engineering goes, and a lot of them were different in other ways. But as far as the quality of ships goes and a preference for that, I would say that the Portuguese probably made some of the best ships.
Jay:
Ah, I mean, interesting. So, and that's a particular interest, like to find a Portuguese wreck would be a particular interest for you.
Greg W:
I mean, yeah, that would be cool.
Jay:
Hmm, interesting. We, and then we got to do, we got to ask Google about that. Then we got to figure out
Greg W:
Yes.
Jay:
where a good preserved historical Portuguese ship would be, that would be super interesting. Yeah. I, it's funny. I spent a lot of time in, uh, in Netherlands, uh, for work, you know, for, for a few years there. And I love the Dutch. Um, I just love it. And it's weird cause it's like the Netherlands and we're Dutch and this is Holland.
Greg W:
Thank
Jay:
It's
Greg W:
you.
Jay:
like one of those weird identity crisis. But I have to admit to myself, and this may be racist, I don't know, and I apologize if it is, but I remember walking around and going like, you know, these are the descendants of pirates. And they're all really big, like for the most part, except for the Dutch guy we know, he's a small Dutch guy. But most of the Dutch guys are like, I think the tallest in general, the tallest biggest people in the world, or they're up there, one number one or number two. And I always just walked around going like, and then you go on some of the ship replicas. There's a lot of them like in Amsterdam and, uh, and other, other areas. You w why did they build such tiny ships? It was such big people. Why do they have these tiny, tiny quarters and then ships and tiny houses and things? But anyway, I always find it interesting, like the, the Dutch trade and Dutch history, you know, you even think about, you know, the, the first stock market and all these sorts of things that existed that came from the tulip trade and the colors of the tulips and all this history that exists there. Super interesting. I spent a lot of time, like I said, there learning a lot about history and the trade there just on my free time when I wasn't working. So cool. So number one, HMS or B or Q or wherever
Greg W:
the Lord
Jay:
endeavor.
Greg W:
Sandwich, formerly known as the HMS Endeavor.
Jay:
Yeah, you're making me hungry. I just I want to go get a sandwich now. Hungry Bear Deli shout out here in Vista, California. Shout out. Oh my gosh, they make a killer. Ruben. I man. All right, I'll go to my first one. And, you know, Q. Johnny Depp, who I know for sure was in a movie with Kevin Bacon at some point. So I don't know which one but it has to be true. Q. Johnny Depp. cue that fun Pirates of the Caribbean music. For me, number one on my list was Port Royal in Jamaica,
Greg W:
Mmm.
Jay:
also known as the city that sank. So the story here is Port Royal was founded in 1518. It was really the center of shipping and commerce in the Caribbean during the latter half of that 17th century. And in 1692, specifically the date, June 7th, three days after my birthday, by the way, if anyone wants to wish me happy birthday, June 4th. Not 1692, although that would be cool. It's June 4th, 1692. I don't know how old I'd be, I'd be very old. But on June 7th, 1692, a massive earthquake, something like seven and a half magnitude hit the island and the city that was built on sand basically liquefied. Right? The buildings, roads, citizens basically went into quicksand, into the ground. And it said that the geysers erupted and buildings collapsed. And then finally, if that wasn't enough, the city was then hit by tsunami waves. It would drag the rest of whatever had not been destroyed out sea. And in the end, they estimate something like 51 acres of the city disappeared under the water, four of the five forts destroyed, submerged. I mean, just wrecked.
Greg W:
Mm-hmm.
Jay:
So with that, we go from land archaeology to underwater archaeology to go and check out this awesome port, right? A port of the Caribbean. And what's interesting too, you know, since the 50s, I think divers have been exploring it. So I mean, that's a long time for that to sit under the water. And then finally, scuba diving becomes something that people can do and In the 50s, we start to explore it. So far, what I know of is that in the most famous artifact that's been discovered there was in, I think, 1970, 1969, somewhere in there, this diver named Edwin Link, I think, discovered a pocket watch that was dated 1686 that stopped exactly at 1143, when the earthquake supposedly
Greg W:
Wow.
Jay:
happened. So that was the most famous. artifact that's been found there so far.
Greg W:
It's actually a very good find. That's something that literally tells you what time
Jay:
Yeah.
Greg W:
something happened.
Jay:
Yeah, crazy, right?
Greg W:
It doesn't get any more conclusive than that, I guess.
Jay:
Yeah, exactly. I think it's really cool. That's the one that stuck out to me. Dive profile, I think it's max depth, something like 40, 50 feet. It's not very deep.
Greg W:
That's not bad.
Jay:
But it requires special permission from the local authorities. From what
Greg W:
Yeah.
Jay:
I've heard, it's easily organized through dive operators to go and dive it. I'm not sure. But I'm not sure if currently. But, uh, but that's so interesting to me. I mean, I don't know, pirates and a city that literally liquefied and you're talking about, you know, a hub of Caribbean trade. And you're also talking about Island and Island weather, like all these different aspects just combined into what sounds like an awesome trip for me. Uh, and, and getting to see, you know, like I said, yeah, it's been dough for the last 60, 70 years, but still it's, you know, there are pieces and parts and things. I look at some of the photos and I just go like, man, this looks like a really cool place just to be a cool environment to be in. So the number one on my list was Port Royal, Jamaica to go see the city that sank. And I think it would be a really cool like week long or two week trip diving that site, checking out all the different aspects of it. And then I think if you combine that with, you know, doing some research beforehand, but then also being able to do some like, shore visits to historical museums that have pulled artifacts out of that. I'm not quite sure where all those artifacts exist, but I know there are some in Jamaica. And then, you know, other reason that it's interesting to me is a long time ago, so I'm dating myself now, not that long ago, but when I graduated high school, it's, you know, it's funny. I didn't have a lot of money growing up. And so, you know, people go on these graduation trips, and that was just out of reach for me. But there was an opportunity to become an organizer for the trip that gave you a discount, pretty big discount. And then there was a regional organizer for our school, high school trip, that gave you basically it for free. And I by happenstance became a school organizer, even though I couldn't afford to go on a trip, I was going to organize the trip. And then the regional organizer dropped out last minute. So I became that and I got to go on my high school graduation trip to Jamaica, to Kingston. And it was awesome. It was the first time I traveled internationally. It was an awesome trip. I remember most of it, not all of it,
Greg W:
Right?
Jay:
you know, and all that, but, but I would love to go back there. I really enjoyed what I got to see of Jamaica and I'd like to go back now with a little bit more. roundedness in my travel and in my brain than being a recently graduated high school student to go back and see some of the historical relevance and just didn't enjoy the island and what it has to offer. So that's why it's interesting to me and Port Royal made my list.
Greg W:
Yeah, there's a lot of, especially for like the golden age of piracy, a lot of history down there in the islands. I don't know about on Jamaica, but I know on Nassau, the main capital island of the Bahamas, they have a pirates museum that probably has all the cool artifacts there. It was closed when I went in 2016. I went right after hurricane hit, unfortunately. But yeah, they I mean, as far as Archaeology goes, I'm sure they've got a bunch of cool stuff in the exhibits there to go and look at and the history of the islands is all probably there.
Jay:
Yeah,
Greg W:
You
Jay:
no, I'm
Greg W:
have
Jay:
cool.
Greg W:
a favorite pirate by chance, speaking of
Jay:
You know, it's a good question.
Greg W:
oil.
Jay:
It's a good question. I don't think I have a favorite. You know, I think there, because there's different pirates, right? There's privateers and pirates. Then there's, you know, English captains who became privateers, who became pirates. And I don't know, the whole history of that is super interesting to me. So like, you know, there are famous pirates, right? You mentioned,
Greg W:
Mm.
Jay:
you know, Captain Cook. He wasn't really a pirate. I mean, he became a privateer, I believe.
Greg W:
Yeah, well the only difference between a privateer and a pirate is that privateers had permission to go and
Jay:
Be Pirates!
Greg W:
And they yeah to go to pirates Um, and
Jay:
Right.
Greg W:
they only became pirates when privateering stopped being a thing, you know so
Jay:
Yeah, no, exactly. I mean, yeah, the whole period of history is interesting to me. And I think I think the reason why outside of like, okay, where does it really come from? Probably me being raised 30 minutes from Disneyland and loving the Pirates of the Caribbean ride. Let's be honest. That's probably where my interest really came from. But but it is I mean, there's just this like, this avatar of pirate standing for something, you know, being outside of the norm. Because I mean, they were, like you said, privateers were just legitimized pirates. They had a function and a role and a reason. It wasn't
Greg W:
Cheers.
Jay:
just to rob and steal and be Captain Hook and prevent Peter Pan from being happy. There was a whole, it was a profession, right? In its own right. And so that whole thing of like being outside of the norm has always been attractive to me. I've always seen myself as kind of that black flag, Jolly Roger. Um, I'm attracted to that rather than going with the flow, just my natural personality. So,
Greg W:
You're
Jay:
you know,
Greg W:
a natural rebel.
Jay:
yeah, I mean, in some ways and other ways, I'm like Dudley do right. So I, but I think there's a, there's a conflict in my head between those things. And I would like to lean into the jolly Roger Black Flag side of it more than I would the other.
Greg W:
Thank
Jay:
But
Greg W:
you.
Jay:
yeah, anyway, that's my number one. What's your number two?
Greg W:
My number two, this one's not really an archeological site because as far as I'm aware, they haven't found it yet, but the USS Cyclops.
Jay:
Ooh, I haven't heard this one. Okay.
Greg W:
Yeah, so the, I don't know how to pronounce the Collier, Coller, basically during World War I, they would, some ships were designed basically like freighters to move coal. And the USS Cyclops was a, Kohler that went missing in the Bermuda Triangle. It's kind of sparked
Jay:
Ooh,
Greg W:
that,
Jay:
all right.
Greg W:
yes, it's one of those ones that sparked the missing ships that would go sailing in the Bermuda Triangle and add it to the supernatural aspects of how things went missing. And it's made some appearances in pop culture, but just knowing what happened to those sailors, what happened to that ship. I think would be a pretty cool mystery to solve. Maybe that'll be my first expedition to make when I get my degree and beg for grant money. Yeah.
Jay:
No kidding. So you, so what's interesting to you about that is not only the rec site, but also the circumstances surrounding how she
Greg W:
Yeah,
Jay:
sang.
Greg W:
yeah, I mean, no one really knows no one's found it. There's been some speculation about, you know, like enemy ships. World War I submarines started becoming a thing. I mean, submarines have like been a thing for hundreds of years up to that point, but the German U-boats really started becoming more and more, I don't want to say like popular, but they became more capable around that into World War II is when they really, really started wreaking havoc. So there's some speculation as to whether or not it was hit by a U-boat. Maybe it got, it crashed into something and then kind of tried limping back to port and just didn't make it. No one really knows. So I think it would be potentially a grave. So I think finding it and marking it. for those sailors that were part of the crew would be a nice way of getting closure to a mystery.
Jay:
Yeah, no, that's awesome. I mean, you know, it's really interesting that aspect we haven't talked about yet in either one of these episodes of, of particularly wreck diving, which is when it's a virgin wreck, definitely is considered underwater archaeology, right? You're, you're seeing something that has historical reference to how it sank and things like that. And that was something that really stood out to me from hearing and talking with a lot of these. Um, people that are focused a lot on wreck diving and particularly World War Two wreck diving, whether that be, uh, you know, ships or, or planes, um, you know, eventually even helicopters later in wars, which is pretty interesting. And things that they talk about, you know, part of the payoff of all the work that goes in that isn't the diving, right? Discovering coordinates and striking out and getting permission and, you know, getting funding, all these things that you're kind of talking about that go into even trying to find this ship in the first place. Part of the payoff in some ways, once you're able to actually locate and identify that wreck in some ways, and understand maybe based on the condition of the wreck, the circumstances in which that particular wreck ended up there, that the families or survivors of those sailors or of those, you know, airmen have some closure, you're able to close that door in some way to the lineage of, hey, here's where the final resting place of your ancestor was. And I never really thought about that. Or I just hadn't passed my mind in that way of discovering a wreck and how cool wreck diving can be. that aspect of it. So it's cool that you bring that up and that discovery could really not only be really cool to understand circumstances, all those things, but also bring some closure for lots of families out there that are survivors of those sailors that were on that ship that really don't know the circumstances of how their loved one may have died or how their ancestor passed.
Greg W:
And going on to diving virgin wrecks, you know, just to sort of build up on what you were talking about. Like they are graves. So if you know kind of circling back to what we discussed on the last episode as far as like treasure hunting and stuff, you know, if you're diving a virgin wreck and there's been known casualties on there and you're taking stuff, it's not just treasure hunting. It's also grave robbing in a way. happened a lot as well and I know for a fact that the Navy and Coast Guard have had to go to some of these wrecks and weld them shut because of treasure hunters and grave robbing. So that's another candle to put on top of the cake.
Jay:
Yeah, there you go. I like that saying. I haven't
Greg W:
You
Jay:
heard
Greg W:
know,
Jay:
that one. Another candle to put on top
Greg W:
yeah,
Jay:
of the cake.
Greg W:
just made
Jay:
Yeah.
Greg W:
it up.
Jay:
Oh, did you? That's impressive.
Greg W:
Yeah.
Jay:
That's an impressive one. We should
Greg W:
Thank
Jay:
keep
Greg W:
you.
Jay:
that.
Greg W:
I'm full of idioms.
Jay:
There we go. All right. I'll go to my number two.
Greg W:
Mm-hmm.
Jay:
So my number two, one it's fun to say, but there are reasons beyond that, is Lake Titicaca. So this is in Bolivia or Peru. Now this is probably not a dive that... I'm just gonna do, you know? So like
Greg W:
Yeah.
Jay:
you book it and you go, right? Cause number one, it's one of the highest lakes in the world. I think it's something like 4,000 meters, which 4,000 times three, what's that? 12,000 feet, right? Did we just do math on the show? Wow, there we
Greg W:
Oh
Jay:
go,
Greg W:
geez,
Jay:
12,000
Greg W:
stop.
Jay:
feet, somewhere around there.
Greg W:
I don't want to do math.
Jay:
Yeah, so it's, yeah, something like, you know, 12,000 feet above sea level, somewhere around there, which is crazy. Right? So
Greg W:
and
Jay:
one, you're altitude diving, right? And, and, and also you need to get there. So there's that whole process of acclimating to the heights that exist there. But it's super interesting because it is part of an area that's the earliest known kind of pre-Columbian port in the Incan world. And so when you talk about, you know, the, the Incan... temples and history and all of that roots itself in Peru and Bolivia and that part of the world. This lake is kind of the port, right? The pre-Columbian earliest ports that's there. And there has been few expeditions there. There have been some that are officially funded, I think, and they've taken things out of there. But not a lot, obviously, because it's not a recreational, you know, go on a weekend or a trip type of dive site. So that's interesting to me. It's there isn't a scuba shop there to do your gas fills. So that the logistics of planning this thing are just massive. And it would be I think a really interesting thing to take on is one of the parts that interested to me. The other part of it is I think that there's still a lot to to look at. I think there was a death already of an archaeological diver there because of those logistics and all of the things that go into the elevation and the conditions. I think I remember reading about that and that's sad. And so again, you have a level of danger that I enjoy, which I really shouldn't, but I tend to enjoy having to think through those things. and really prepare and be well-trained for it. But some of the things that they've found is they've done some carbon dating on some of the bones and they believe them to be victims of human sacrifice. And they date them somewhere between the eighth and the 10th century, right, somewhere in there. So there's a lot of unique history there. And there's a lot of collaboration that has to happen between the underwater archaeologists and the indigenous communities of the area because it's not just about, you know, the understanding of history. It's also the cultural relevance. And a lot of times that cultural relevance has spiritual, religious, or ancestral charges to it. So it's just a really, I don't know, I like complex things that... not a lot of people can do. And Lake Titicaca is one of those that it's not accessible to the public. It's gonna be one of those things that you get lucky and it's a lifetime experience to be able to do that. So it made my list for those reasons. I don't know the dive profile. I don't know the depth of water or even what the site layout looks like and how they've explored it. but I've seen photos and it's just such a foreign dive site to anything else that you see diving related that it just really sparks my interest. And if I can, you know, train and I'm good enough to be able to be on an expedition like that, that's something that I would definitely entertain being able to do.
Greg W:
Yeah, that sounds like a real experience to go out there and do a dive of that magnitude with that logistics. I mean, a weird way of looking at it is that most of diving takes place on the surface anyway. You know, the driving, the flying, the social aspect, the logistics that goes behind it. You could spend thousands of dollars and spend hours of travel just to get 30 minutes of bottom time.
Jay:
Yeah, yeah.
Greg W:
Who knows? But
Jay:
Well,
Greg W:
yeah,
Jay:
that's,
Greg W:
that's a cool one.
Jay:
especially when it comes to things like this, right, that even in underwater archeology in general, or underwater science in a lot of ways, is there's so much work that I've talked to from explorers, underwater explorers that talk about so much surface work on just accessing the site with the landowners, and all of these sorts of things are building the ability to bring logistics. logistically scuba gear and tanks and things to that site. So there's so much groundwork, land work that goes into something like this to even be able to go into the water. It's exciting to me, it also sounds daunting and it's a team effort, all these aspects of things that I think are super interesting and who knows what you'll find. I mean, it's not really about what you find, it's more about the experience of doing it for me that would be interesting.
Greg W:
Yeah, no for sure. I mean, I'm very interesting in what I would find. Even if you don't find anything, not finding something and being certain that you didn't find something there is one way of gathering information,
Jay:
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Greg W:
right? You know, like if you're looking for something and it's not there and you can confirm that it's not there, then you know it's not there. And that adds to future efforts and endeavors. You know, the list goes on there, but the logistics of going through it. Um, I think that in and of itself is valuable experience. Being able to navigate the paperwork and all that effort that goes into planning these types of dives.
Jay:
Exactly. All right, cool. What's your last one? Last but not least, your third one.
Greg W:
Last one that I picked I picked Antirodos which is the island that was just off of the city of Alexandria in Egypt. I think it was The year of 365 That they estimated to have been sunk it There was an earthquake in the eastern Mediterranean near Crete that caused a tsunami that sunk this city and they found it in 1996 and they found some really cool stuff. There's a palace there that was believed to have actually been Cleopatra's
Jay:
Yeah, yeah, Cleopatra's
Greg W:
palace.
Jay:
palace. That's right. Yeah.
Greg W:
So Egyptology being as extensive as it is and just the diving in Egypt altogether I think taking a trip out there. making sure that site is one of the ones I get to dive, I think would be a really cool experience. And then water's really clear there. So you get some great photos. And I think just like kind of living in the, diving in and around that's a sunken city, like an ancient sunken city. That's probably as close to Atlantis as you get. You know, but.
Jay:
You don't believe Atlantis is real. We've
Greg W:
I don't
Jay:
established
Greg W:
believe
Jay:
that
Greg W:
it.
Jay:
fact. Yes.
Greg W:
I hope I'm wrong. I hope James Cameron finds it, and I'll go take a submarine tour down to the sunken city of Atlantis or something.
Jay:
Plato is a damn liar.
Greg W:
Dink.
Jay:
That's what you really say.
Greg W:
Play-Doh making up all these dialogues. And
Jay:
Hahaha!
Greg W:
never. I'm going to go to bed.
Jay:
So is it open to the public? Can you just go dive it or what's the story there?
Greg W:
I don't know if it's open to the public, actually. I know an archaeologist by the name of, I'm probably going to mess up his name, Frank Gaudio, found it in 1996. And it's a small island. It's only about 1,200 acres. And it's not that deep, apparently. All the photos that I'm seeing, it looks like they're only 20, 30 feet down. So I mean, it might be. I don't know. That sounds like another question for Google, whether or not that site is actually open to the public.
Jay:
Google knows everything doesn't
Greg W:
Google knows everything.
Jay:
it? That's crazy. Yeah, no, it's I mean, that's interesting and yeah, I've read about Cleopatra's palace and that seems like just a Magnet for treasure hunting. So I wonder what the condition of the site because it's a relatively new site Like I said 96 so it's relatively new I wonder what condition that side and if it's logistically hard to get to and you need permission Yeah, I'm probably gonna have some incredible diving there, but I wonder
Greg W:
I don't think getting to the site would be hard. If there are legal issues involved in getting there, that would probably be the hardest thing to do because I mean, it's a port city basically. It's not that far off Egypt and Egypt does have a dive industry, a very
Jay:
Yeah, a very healthy one,
Greg W:
established
Jay:
yeah.
Greg W:
dive industry there. So the logistics would probably be less hard. to get there so much as if you needed permission from the government to dive it, that would probably be the most difficult.
Jay:
Yeah, well, we should we should find out that sounds like a really cool I would like to go do that. I mean, yeah, can you imagine just like, swimming around a sunken city that may or may not have been Cleopatra's palace? I mean, wow.
Greg W:
Yeah,
Jay:
How people
Greg W:
that's
Jay:
can say
Greg W:
one.
Jay:
that, right? Not a lot of people in the world could say that.
Greg W:
And Cleopatra as a staple, as like a historical figure altogether. I mean, anything surrounding that is certainly significant. So that would be pretty cool dive.
Jay:
Do you know of anything they've discovered there that points them towards it being Cleopatra's palace or not or any,
Greg W:
off
Jay:
any?
Greg W:
the top of my head, no. I mean, there's, let's see. Other finds include a colossal stone head thought to be of Cleopatra's son Caesarian, and a huge quartzite block with an engraving of a pharaoh and an inscription indicating that it depicts Seti the first, father of Ramses the second. So there's some finds there, but I'm not seeing anything. Oh, here we go. A pair of granite sphinxes flanked the statues, one of which had the head of Cleopatra's father. I
Jay:
Ah, okay.
Greg W:
don't
Jay:
So son
Greg W:
know, maybe that's...
Jay:
and father,
Greg W:
Yeah.
Jay:
you know, and likeness are there.
Greg W:
Yeah, and that's by a small temple of Issus, which these life-size granite statues depicting the shaven-headed Egyptian priest goddess, Issus, carrying a jar topped with images of Osiris.
Jay:
Hmm, interesting.
Greg W:
That's not the best source of information, Wikipedia, but it's quick and available for the sake of this episode.
Jay:
There you go. Well, that's good. I want to do that. So I'll do my third because we'll stay in Egypt. It's interesting that Egypt was both our third ones because
Greg W:
Mm.
Jay:
we didn't plan this way. But for me, my third one is, and I'm going to butcher the pronunciation here, but I think it's Thonis Heracleion. Apologies, apologies.
Greg W:
You're
Jay:
All
Greg W:
right,
Jay:
I
Greg W:
you
Jay:
know
Greg W:
did.
Jay:
is that it's called Thonis or Thonis by the Egyptians. and Hera Cleon by the Greeks. So they just hyphenate it and that's the dive site. And basically it is a city again that fell into the Mediterranean after earthquakes, a series of earthquakes. It wasn't just kind of a massive earthquake like there was in Port Royal. It was a series of earthquakes about a thousand years ago. And one of the things that I really interest me about the site is that it is not open to recreational dive. I guess maybe I'm interested in sites that are not open to the public, because this is my second one on the
Greg W:
You
Jay:
list
Greg W:
want
Jay:
like
Greg W:
it
Jay:
that.
Greg W:
because you can't have it.
Jay:
Yeah, maybe that's it. I like the forbidden fruit. But yeah, so it is only accessible to research diving and underwater archaeologists. And there are current excavations going on right now, ongoing. And it's really interesting. It's along the Nile, which again, I've never been to Egypt. So just... That trip in general sounds interesting to me. And the city itself, again, Thonis Heraklion, I think, was inhabited, they say somewhere in kind of the, between the sixth and the fourth centuries. And it was a really important port to the city of Alexandria, which obviously, the city of Alexandria is an important, you know, in our in that Mesopotamian expansion and so on and so forth. So super interesting there. And they have seen some Greco-Egyptian statues coming out of there, Greco-Egyptian gods. There's been pottery discovered. There's been coins. And even they found entire temples have come out of there, which is pretty amazing, right? Right along the Nile to find the temple. Most recently, I was reading that they found a fast galley wreck. So talk about your ships.
Greg W:
Mm, yeah.
Jay:
They found a fast galley wreck. And that was kind of an ancient boat that was propelled by oarsmen. So if you've seen the Marvel series Moon Knight, I imagine this like boat, this fast galley wreck to be looking like the boat that they're on towards the end of the season. It's really interesting. But it's also obviously a burial ground for these sailors, for these oarsmen. The boats I think around 80 feet, something like that, 80, 85 feet long. And it's something like 2,200 years old and it's still preserved. Like
Greg W:
Yeah,
Jay:
crazy,
Greg W:
that sounds about right.
Jay:
right? Like it sounds like so cool to be able to see that with your own eyes and be on that. So that wreck
Greg W:
You should
Jay:
for
Greg W:
look with
Jay:
lots
Greg W:
me.
Jay:
of reasons is very interesting to me. And something that I would like to go and see with my own eyes.
Greg W:
Yeah, you should look up the Kufu ship.
Jay:
Yeah, yeah, you mentioned that.
Greg W:
Yep, that was a they were I don't remember whose tomb it was but they found this farrow they went down. I think it was Ramsey's But they went into his tomb and they like couldn't figure out like the dimensions of the room So after you know a long debate of what they should do to the dive the dive site to the archaeological site they finally decided to remove some stone bricking that they thought would that they hypothesized and were pretty sure that it was like a false wall and they found his ship just in the tomb with him behind this hidden wall and so they had to dig all that out and I think that was in the 1990s but yeah the Egyptians were very big on sailing and seafaring the Nile runs from south to north And so in order to fight the flow of the river, they use sails. Moving all those stones to the pyramids up and down, they would actually like take some of those like big stone obelisks and they would rest it on these two ships and then they would use smaller boats to act kind of like tugboats, to like push these bigger ones around to navigate up and down the river.
Jay:
Yeah, my understanding of this fast galley wreck is that it sank because it was loaded with stones. Like something went wrong. And that's, that's the reason that it sank because they found the stones down there with it and super. Yeah. I mean, if you think about, I've not been, so like I said, I'd like to go to Egypt. In fact, one of my, one of my good friends and a teammate of mine is there right now diving the Red Sea. And I just got off the phone the other day with our old teammate. that we did some training with. And he has a trip plan to the Red Sea in February. And I'm like, gosh, I gotta get on one of these. Everyone's going to the Red Sea all of a sudden. But I would really, from what I mean, you think about things like the Sphinxes and the pyramids and so on and so forth. Yeah, the logistics in getting the materials to the site in the first place are
Greg W:
Mm-hmm.
Jay:
something. And so yeah, the seafaring and obviously waterways. are a way to transport those materials. And so they're full of archeological relevance to that time period and beyond as well. So I don't know, Egypt, Egypt's definitely on the list. And I think it's on a lot of diver's bucket lists, but with this bent of underwater archeology, it's super interesting as well, because you're seeing things that, again, the average tourist isn't gonna see, which I think is cool, but also you're seeing pieces of a puzzle that are super interesting. So yeah. Well good,
Greg W:
Egypt
Jay:
this has been
Greg W:
is
Jay:
fun. What's
Greg W:
a beast.
Jay:
that? And the visit is
Greg W:
Yeah,
Jay:
good.
Greg W:
and
Jay:
Yeah.
Greg W:
the visca. No, studying the history of Egypt really is like it's own separate beast.
Jay:
Yeah, there's whole like, you know.
Greg W:
There's so much there, it's ridiculous.
Jay:
By the way,
Greg W:
They've got a whole
Jay:
have you
Greg W:
branch
Jay:
seen
Greg W:
of
Jay:
Moon
Greg W:
study
Jay:
Knight?
Greg W:
for it. I have.
Jay:
Are you into it? Yeah, that was
Greg W:
Yeah,
Jay:
good. That
Greg W:
it
Jay:
was
Greg W:
was
Jay:
a great
Greg W:
good.
Jay:
series.
Greg W:
I'm waiting for season two.
Jay:
Yeah.
Greg W:
I enjoyed it.
Jay:
Yeah, that was some great acting. I wonder how if we can connect Moon Knight to Kevin Bacon. I don't, I can't
Greg W:
actors.
Jay:
do it. Ah! Ha!
Greg W:
There's great acting. There we go. One step. Moon Knight had actors. Kevin Bacon is an actor.
Jay:
Let's see here. Let's ask Google if Kevin Bacon has ever been in an Egyptian movie. Um, Egyptian.
Greg W:
Ha ha ha!
Jay:
movie. Let's see. Kevin Bacon.
Greg W:
Are you pulling him up on
Jay:
The
Greg W:
IMDb
Jay:
darkness
Greg W:
here?
Jay:
is what came up. Kevin Bacon, Egyptian movie, The Darkness. Let's see what this is all about. A family unknowingly awakens an ancient supernatural entity on a Grand Canyon vacation and must fight for survival when it follows them home. Doesn't
Greg W:
Doesn't
Jay:
really sound
Greg W:
sound like
Jay:
like the
Greg W:
any Egypt.
Jay:
Egypt. Yeah, Google failed us there. So, bummer. We'll find it later. Well, good,
Greg W:
Yeah.
Jay:
Greg, this has been fun. I'm I want to go on some of these dives, we should plan an Egypt trip and figure out hey,
Greg W:
Yeah.
Jay:
if you're listening out there and you run a charter in Egypt and get us on some of these sites, like hit us up, we'll go I want to go
Greg W:
Or
Jay:
maybe
Greg W:
just
Jay:
next year.
Greg W:
any dives in general. I mean,
Jay:
Ha ha ha!
Greg W:
you know, like it
Jay:
Wherever,
Greg W:
doesn't.
Jay:
yeah,
Greg W:
Yeah, wherever.
Jay:
if you own a query and you want to come, I was coming out and talking.
Greg W:
If you're the proud owner of a rock quarry somewhere out there,
Jay:
Greg
Greg W:
let
Jay:
and I'll
Greg W:
us know.
Jay:
be there. You know, it's funny, I have to say Greg, and maybe I don't know what episode three will unholst for us, but I have to say when I got into technical diving in general, you realize that there's your Rolodex of people that you'll get in the water with shrinks for those types of dives, right? Pretty dramatically, I would say, the people that you trust. And so anyway, I've been thinking about that because there's some dives I wanna do that are bigger dives that I've been looking at and kind of planning out logistically. Like you and me and Kevin, or Kevin Wood, who will be on the show, I think he comes up next. I'm not sure. No, I think Ben's next. He's finishing his episodes and then Kevin. But he'll be on the show later. Those are like, that's like my dream team. the three of us going to do some big dives. So we need to plan something out and go do it would be a lot of fun.
Greg W:
I'm really touched that I actually made it to the roster of the Dream Team.
Jay:
You made you made it you're the you're the Charles Barkley to my Michael
Greg W:
Yeah.
Jay:
Jordan. Not which
Greg W:
That's not that.
Jay:
one you're Michael Jordan. I'll be I don't know Shaq. There we go. I'll be I'll be
Greg W:
Oh, all right.
Jay:
late.
Greg W:
There
Jay:
They
Greg W:
we go.
Jay:
weren't in the same era. I'm scared.
Greg W:
No, not even close.
Jay:
I really do love basketball and I just screwed all of that up. So apologies.
Greg W:
Don't know anything about basketball. So you could have just been like, oh, yeah Shaq and Michael Jordan played b-ball
Jay:
Yeah,
Greg W:
together
Jay:
Tiger
Greg W:
all
Jay:
Woods
Greg W:
the time
Jay:
and
Greg W:
Yeah, Tiger Woods is on the
Jay:
John
Greg W:
Bulls
Jay:
Elway.
Greg W:
I think
Jay:
Yeah, they were all really, really good. No, the dream team was the Barcelona Olympics, you know, coming back from being a semi-professional college that we sent college kids to the Olympics to, finally sending professionals. And the dream team was exactly what it sounds like, the dream team. You know, Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Larry Bird, Patrick Ewing, I mean, Charles Barkley did, Illuminary names that you can imagine
Greg W:
I can't
Jay:
being
Greg W:
imagine
Jay:
on that team.
Greg W:
any of those Illuminary names, because I know who one of them is, and I've heard of the other one.
Jay:
Okay, let me guess. You know who Michael Jordan is?
Greg W:
Well yeah, who hasn't seen
Jay:
Okay.
Greg W:
Space Jam? Hahahaha
Jay:
Oh my gosh. Space Jam was your introduction. Okay, all right. Michael Jordan. I'm going to guess you have heard of Magic Johnson.
Greg W:
Yes, that is the
Jay:
Not Charles
Greg W:
one who...
Jay:
Barkley. Okay. All right.
Greg W:
no, definitely not.
Jay:
Okay. All right. All right. Wow. I was right. Yeah.
Greg W:
Yeah, good guess.
Jay:
Magic Johnson. My dog is named Magic. It's Magic Johnson.
Greg W:
After Magic Johnson
Jay:
Well, from me, my kids
Greg W:
No
Jay:
think it's after like, you know, that he's his full name is Magical Fantastical the Great, apparently. according
Greg W:
good name.
Jay:
to the kids. It's a very regal name. He deserves a statue or something. I don't know.
Greg W:
Oh yeah, you'll never find anyone else with that name.
Jay:
It's true. It's true. I think it's Magic Johnson. That's why I signed off on it. So anyway, other history, not ancient history, modern history, basketball. I wonder if we can find any of those guys in the water.
Greg W:
Yeah. Do you know any basketball players that are avid scuba divers?
Jay:
I do not know. I do not know any none come to mind. Specifically, I do know Jerry Garcia from The Grateful Dead was an avid scuba diver. Yeah,
Greg W:
Really?
Jay:
yeah. And actually, I think that there's Halcyon came out with a wing, a tie-dye wing. And I don't know if it's in honor of
Greg W:
Um...
Jay:
Jerry Garcia or not, but it was, you know, deadhead became known as the deadhead wing, you know, colored wing.
Greg W:
That's
Jay:
So
Greg W:
cool.
Jay:
I'm not really into the colors. give it to me in black is always my question but I'm glad there are people that are into the colors.
Greg W:
be down to dive it. I mean, like, how else because like, if everyone's wearing like a black dry suit with black wing and everyone looks at how you're going to know who's who underwater, you
Jay:
Yeah.
Greg W:
know.
Jay:
See, we'll see. This is my point. Everyone else could get colors and then I'll be the only guy in black.
Greg W:
There you go.
Jay:
Perfect. I'll be the different one. I mean, Jolly, remember we talked about this already, you know, the, the black flag, all that stuff, you know, that's,
Greg W:
Oh
Jay:
that's
Greg W:
yeah,
Jay:
me.
Greg W:
jolly
Jay:
Does
Greg W:
Roger.
Jay:
it come in? Does it come in black? Yeah. So the man in black, Johnny cash, one of my favorite ours. There
Greg W:
Oh,
Jay:
we go.
Greg W:
Johnny
Jay:
See,
Greg W:
Cash,
Jay:
we're
Greg W:
man.
Jay:
getting there.
Greg W:
It was Johnny Cash the Diver.
Jay:
wish but no,
Greg W:
Yeah, probably not.
Jay:
I don't think so. I don't think so. I don't know any, like, none, no famous people that I respect come to come to mind of like, also being avid divers outside of Jerry Garcia. So I can't think
Greg W:
Well,
Jay:
of
Greg W:
when you talk about the Tai Dai wing coming from Halcyon, something that I learned that going back to actually diving about Halcyon is very interesting. So the name Halcyon in I think it's like East Asian mythology was a mystical kingfisher bird that would lay its eggs in the middle of the ocean on the winter solstice and bring calm seas. The name Halcyon for diving equipment name is actually very fitting if you think about it.
Jay:
I wonder if that was the intent or if it was just like, this
Greg W:
I don't
Jay:
sounds
Greg W:
know,
Jay:
cool.
Greg W:
I think it might have been.
Jay:
Yeah.
Greg W:
But,
Jay:
It's
Greg W:
yeah.
Jay:
always that way. Like the Nike sounded like, if you've read that whole thing, the swoosh mark or whatever is like,
Greg W:
Oh, yeah.
Jay:
the story behind that's pretty interesting and now it all makes sense, but at the time it was not as well intended as.
Greg W:
I'm
Jay:
As now
Greg W:
sorry.
Jay:
the backstory goes well, isn't there something about that history is won by the victors or written by the victors
Greg W:
Yeah, there's histories written by the victors.
Jay:
Yeah, there you
Greg W:
That's like an old
Jay:
go.
Greg W:
thing but
Jay:
Yeah. So you'd say
Greg W:
history
Jay:
like if Nike didn't make it, then that swoosh was really lame.
Greg W:
Yeah. Well, history is written, but history is constantly being rewritten and revised. So whether it's created by the victors or if it's created by historians themselves and depiction of history, you know, that's always something that's a that's a deep conversation that we don't have
Jay:
Woo,
Greg W:
to go into a scuba diving podcast,
Jay:
yeah,
Greg W:
but.
Jay:
no, let's skip that one for now. All right, well, that was the longest wrap up of any episode I've been on, but worth it. We covered basketball,
Greg W:
Basketball,
Jay:
Jerry Garcia,
Greg W:
The Grateful Dead, and Halcyon. That's
Jay:
Halcyon,
Greg W:
all.
Jay:
history being written by the Victors. That's a good wrap up. There
Greg W:
History
Jay:
you go,
Greg W:
is written by divers.
Jay:
there
Greg W:
Let's
Jay:
we go,
Greg W:
go with.
Jay:
yeah, especially ones that try to kill each other. So yeah, so today we've covered Desert Island Dives, the underwater archaeology edition. If you're listening out there, we want to hear your thoughts. What are some dive sites you've wanted to put your Indiana Jones hat on and go explore? What is interesting about that site to you? What are the dives maybe that you've already been on that were of archaeological interest to you where you discovered something or whatever it would be? Reach out. Greg and I want to know your stories because we keep on talking to each other. So we'll talk to other people. Uh, yeah, over to you, Greg.
Greg W:
No, thanks for having me on for episode two. And I look forward to episode three. And
Jay:
Now
Greg W:
that,
Jay:
who knows what awaits?
Greg W:
yeah, and go out and discover some cool stuff and dive on some cool wrecks and learn the history of those wrecks. Every ship has some form of history to it. It doesn't necessarily have to be some crazy disaster that was written about in the news.
Jay:
Did you just reference Titanic? You did it, didn't you? You couldn't
Greg W:
Well,
Jay:
get it,
Greg W:
I
Jay:
yeah.
Greg W:
mean, I did mention that if James Cameron ever finds it, I'll go on the submarine tour with
Jay:
Yeah,
Greg W:
him.
Jay:
yeah, I like these subtle these subtle Titan blows there. Yeah.
Greg W:
I mean, I wasn't going there, but... Yeah.
Jay:
Yeah, we get stuff. Maybe that's Episode three.
Greg W:
It is diving related,
Jay:
The archaeological
Greg W:
in a way.
Jay:
site of the Titan. Yeah, it's
Greg W:
I was a Titanic.
Jay:
too soon.
Greg W:
No, they found it.
Jay:
Yeah, I know.
Greg W:
They brought up the sub.
Jay:
Yeah, I know. Oh, the whole thing.
Greg W:
Yeah, yeah, they
Jay:
Oh,
Greg W:
brought
Jay:
I
Greg W:
I
Jay:
thought
Greg W:
don't
Jay:
they
Greg W:
know
Jay:
only
Greg W:
if they
Jay:
found
Greg W:
bought
Jay:
the scraps.
Greg W:
the whole thing but I saw pictures it looked like a crumbled up
Jay:
Yeah.
Greg W:
metal mess
Jay:
Oh, what a story there is.
Greg W:
Yeah, that's
Jay:
Well, maybe another day, another day. Well, good. If you've enjoyed this episode and want to be a part of our community, join us making sure you subscribe to this podcast wherever you get your podcast, whether that be Spotify or Apple or I don't know, snail mail. But make sure that you get notified when our new episodes drop and on YouTube. which I'm excited to say at this point. So you can see Greg and I's lovely faces, faces that are built for radio. And you can see them on the screen, the big screen, if you have one at home and wanna watch it that way, go for it. But make sure you subscribe wherever you listen to make sure that you get notified when new episodes drop. So thanks for joining us today. And we look forward to having you back on the next episode of The Dive Table.
