Jay (00:02)
Welcome to the dive table. We're glad you're here. I'm Jay Gardner.
Sarah (00:07)
And I'm Sarah Miller.
Jay (00:09)
And Sarah, I'm curious, since you started diving, what was the longest surface interval? Meaning the time between dives that you ever had.
Sarah (00:22)
Honestly, it was probably only six or eight months. I've been pretty consistent getting into the water. Yeah, that's probably, and that was, I believe that was after I did my dive master because it took me a while to gain the courage to get into cold water in California.
Jay (00:44)
Well, I'm coming off my longest, I'm coming off my longest surface interval, which was almost two and a half months and I just got to go diving. And so we were talking and I think in this episode, we're going to talk about that getting back into diving after a surface enroll, whether it be, you know, the winter or it be, you know, time, family life, gotten away, whatever it is. But there's a lot of people out there that are right now thinking about
Sarah (00:45)
How about you?
Jay (01:11)
getting back in the water that has taken some time off, whatever time that would be. And so I'm looking forward to this episode. How about you?
Sarah (01:19)
Yeah, let's get into it.
Jay (01:25)
Go for it.
Sarah (01:27)
So talking about surface intervals, I think it's really common that people spend a long time out of the water, right? There's not as many people, like you're kind of a rare human being, right? That your longest surface interval was only two, what did you say, two and a half months?
Jay (01:48)
Yeah, two and a half months. Which killed me, by the way, but yes.
Sarah (01:50)
Yeah, that's like, that's nothing. But it's nothing, right? Like when I worked in tropical places, the majority of clients were like, oh, I go diving once every couple of years, right? So I think a lot of people don't really know how to get back into it, or I get a lot of questions about gear and things, like when is it time to...
do certain servicing or what should I do to get back into it because I'm not super confident. I think that's we can cover some of these questions.
Jay (02:31)
Yeah, absolutely. I think, and I think there's a lot of people right now out there. The winter's kind of coming to an end, the spring's coming up, depending on where you're living. Um, there's certainly, you're starting to open up that dive locker and you get that nice, you know, smell coming back for you. And you know, you discover your, your wetsuit shrunk somehow magically every season, right? All these sorts of things. So I think it'll be good.
Sarah (02:37)
Mm-hmm.
Bleh. No.
Right. It's always the wetsuit. It's always the wetsuit.
Jay (03:00)
Exactly. Man, this thing used to fit me really nicely, but now, oh, not so much.
Sarah (03:02)
Uh, right? So.
Jay (03:07)
So what are some things that you do in terms of, or that you have coached others or that you've seen? Let's just focus on gear maybe in the first part, from the gear perspective, like getting your gear out, sorted, all that stuff.
Sarah (03:22)
Yeah, I mean, I think it's smart to get your gear serviced before a dive season, especially if it's been put away for several months. You wanna make sure that it's safe, right? And that it's clean too. Like, I don't know if you, I'm guilty of this, 100% big time, of like putting something away and then not realizing that like the filter was maybe not so great and I probably shouldn't have been diving with it.
You know, so I think for your health and safety, it's good to start the season with a servicing. And the thing is that you need to think about that because everybody's realizing that at the same time. So your local dive shops are gonna be kind of overwhelmed by the amount of people sending in their regs or their BCDs or whatever. So it's good to think about this stuff early.
Jay (04:14)
Yeah, and it's always interesting too around like this debate of time versus usage in gear because there's, you know, there's manufacturer recommendations around how many dives you should put on a piece, on a rig, for example, on a regulator versus how much time has passed. You know, if it's been two years, you know, it gets a little unclear. And so there's a judgment call. And I think, you know, probably if you're...
Sarah (04:21)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Jay (04:43)
If you're on the fence, it's always better to just get it serviced, right? Just get it serviced and then you know, you have that peace of mind versus, you know, yeah, I know this was, this was service, you know, six months ago and I only dove it once probably doesn't need to get serviced, right? Or whatever it would be. Um, but certainly it's, it's worth pulling everything out, looking at the hoses and the connections, you know, peeling back the he the hose connection or the boots that go on there.
Sarah (04:47)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Jay (05:12)
look for corrosion, you know, visual inspection, you can really do on your own and look at everything. You don't have to pull everything apart. You can look at everything, you know, pull the dump valves and see how they're sticky or not on, you know, your wing or on your BCD. All of those things you can kind of do from a not paying for it perspective for yourself. And then anything that raises a question that you don't know, that you don't feel comfortable, you know, taking apart or servicing yourself.
Sarah (05:32)
Mm-hmm.
Jay (05:40)
because you haven't had that training, that's a good trigger to take it to the shop, you know, ask somebody, you know, should I get this serviced? How long will it be? So on and so forth.
Sarah (05:51)
Yeah, that's a really good point that you made about the, you're referring to the hose protectors. I always tell people to get rid of those actually because yeah, because they are notorious for holding saltwater and creating more problems than they actually solve, you know? So that's a good, yeah, it's a good thing to look at if you do have them on your regs to just pull them down and like check out.
Jay (06:02)
Yes.
100%.
Sarah (06:20)
you'll see pretty clearly if you've accidentally left some salt water there.
Jay (06:25)
Yeah, green and white colors. And yeah, I say the same thing. Cut those things off, get rid of them so that you can see. I say the same thing about tank boots. Every time that you take a tank boot off of a tank, you see all of the corrosion. And if your tank is painted, that's where it starts to bubble is right underneath that because it's hard to rinse that. It's hard to rinse underneath that when you're cleaning gear. And same thing with the hose boots. You can't really rinse underneath there so it traps.
Sarah (06:30)
Mm-hmm.
Hmm
Yeah.
Jay (06:54)
the salt crystals, it traps the salt water in there. Same thing with dump valves or power inflators. These are all areas that get salt water trapped in them. And if we don't rinse them well or whatever, it's good to press the buttons, feel what they feel. If it's crunchy, you know, like that's probably something that, you know, you press the power inflator and it's a little crunchy, probably time to take it in and get it serviced or at least cleaned. And they might not need to replace the O-ring in there or whatever.
Sarah (07:07)
Yes.
Yeah.
Right, what are your general rules for time versus number of dives?
Jay (07:30)
That's a good question, I'm-
Sarah (07:30)
like for servicing, for actual servicing.
Jay (07:34)
Yeah, I'm usually on the number of dives boat on that just because I, like I said, I don't take a lot. I try not to take a lot of time off of diving. It's something for me that I just, I'm obsessed with and I need to go do, and it's good for my health. It's good for my mental health and physical health and all those things. But you know, if, if somebody comes with, let's say a reg that hasn't been used in, uh, in a year, that's that in me, for me, like the timeline.
Six months, you know, those O-rings are going to be okay. They're not going to completely dry out. A year, they probably will. And so it's worth again, testing it, seeing whether or not it needs service or just getting it serviced for peace of mind if you're not comfortable. And I'm also kind of in a different boat in the sense that, you know, I went through a lot of the regulator servicing and gear servicing courses, and I'm kind of a gear head in that sense. I like the gear and I like to know how it works. And
Sarah (08:10)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Jay (08:33)
all that kind of stuff. And so I have a different point of view when it comes to peace of mind in those things than maybe some divers will, and probably less than other divers who are really well aware of their gear.
Sarah (08:48)
That's a great point. Like getting the experience and familiarity with your gear, you are more aware when things start to feel off too, that you can be like, hmm, this isn't, like there's something going on, something sticky, something doesn't feel quite right when I'm breathing. And that's something that you can do for yourself. As a diver, take the courses that train you to be a...
a servicing technician or practice on it, play with it. There are some brands that offer these things online too. I know my regulators have full servicing workshops, I guess, like the certification process is now fully online, which is really cool. So that's a great thing to offer to people, if they have their own gear and that's something that they...
are interested in. I keep telling myself that I'm going to get more educated in that. I've done a little bit, but I still am not the gearhead that you are for sure. I always know when things are, like I can sense, I know enough about them that I can tell when I'm like, oh, I need to get this looked at. But to do any real troubleshooting if something's not working, I probably need some help with that.
Jay (10:15)
Yeah. And what, what's your regs that you're diving to offer the workshops?
Sarah (10:21)
That is Nex, Nex Underwater Products. So I just got outfitted with their sidemount regulators and their sidemount harness. So I'm fully Nex when it comes to sidemount. Yeah, Nex, ah, it's very cool. Yeah, yeah, no, they're really cool. And I love the team, because I'm kind of a...
Jay (10:23)
Next. That's right.
You're that sounds like a verb almost. It's cool. Yeah. Like I'm next. Yeah.
Sarah (10:48)
As much as I can be, I want to be like an anti-big brand sort of person just because I like small brands, I like supporting small businesses, and especially ones that are supporting people working in California. I think it's something that's really important to me because I'm from there and it is so hard to make a living there, especially in the scuba industry. So I like to be that. That's why I have a DUI dry suit.
because they assemble everything in San Diego. So that's my stuff. I also, like for my recreational gear, I have, oh gosh, I have a Scuba Pro MK11 regulator. Yeah, so I have that. And then I just got gifted a Hollis backplate and wing from a student. It was very sweet gift. That was my tip for a sidemount course.
Jay (11:33)
Nice. Okay.
Sarah (11:46)
And like very nice tip. Yeah, and it's actually my first back plate and wing, which I'm still getting used to. Yeah, I, oh, just singles. I still haven't done doubles. I've never tried them. I don't really want to, but I do at the same time just to get the experience. But the idea of carrying doubles sounds like my nightmare. Like I don't wanna do that.
Jay (11:50)
Yeah.
Oh, nice. Singles or doubles?
Yeah, it can be a bit much depending on the entry for sure. For sure. No, that's great.
Sarah (12:18)
Yeah. What about you? I'm not familiar with other brands and their availability for servicing courses online. I don't know if that's something that's like as readily available for other brands.
Jay (12:34)
No, that's cool. I'm glad to hear Next is doing that. And I think I met them at DEMA last year and we had talked a little bit about that. I think it's great. I know Hog does the same thing. And I have a bunch of Hog gear, but I'm not an ambassador or endorsing. I enjoyed, I bought Hog because I thought they offered the service side of training. And then I can service my own regulators. And I have
Sarah (12:40)
Yeah.
Jay (13:03)
you know, way too many to speak of at this point. And so that's nice. And, um, and be able to get by part, that's the big part is being able to buy the servicing parts. And so some, you know, some companies will only sell that to authorize or I think most only sell it to authorized dealers or service technicians, which are typically through a shop.
Sarah (13:15)
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
Jay (13:28)
Uh, but I know hog now and we know next. Uh, and I know there are others that are moving in that direction. Um, apex, I think is one of them as well. That's been thinking about how do you, you know, put the service, um, capability into the divers hands, not just in the shop technician hands, but again, it's, it's not something that you just, you know, pop open and put back together, you know, it's, it's definitely something you need to train. And I mean, the book for that was really thick that I went through. Um,
Sarah (13:44)
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Jay (13:58)
So I don't recommend at all just thinking, oh yeah, I have an engineering mind and I was really good at Legos, so I could do this. No, take a course, get certified, really understand. And then even when you do that, I still contact the head of Hogg's engineering department here and there. When I get into it, like, I'm not quite sure about this piece or that piece, I have a direct line to him that I can.
shoot him an email and he usually gets back to me really quick or will jump on a quick call and say, oh yeah, put this here, put that there. Yeah. So I mean, again, it's not, if you're doing it every day as a technician, it becomes something that you can kind of do in your sleep. If you're doing it like me, where you're servicing once a year and you're kind of keeping all the paperwork on it and all that stuff to know, when do I need to do this and how do I need to do it, then it's not as routine, right? So you need...
Sarah (14:30)
That's Clutch. That's cool.
Yeah.
Jay (14:53)
you know, to review and think about and look back at the book and all my notes that I took during the course. And then sometimes it just gets stuck and I got a call or send an email and that's okay too. So, uh, but yeah, that's, I think more and more manufacturers are thinking about, uh, how do we put servicing in the hands of, of the user, not just in the technician's hands.
Sarah (15:02)
Yeah, totally.
No. Yeah, the other side of gear things, right? For like getting ready for the new season, like people might be looking to buy as well, right? We had discussed before recording kind of different options that are available for people. And I'm a big proponent, like I actually have a video of this on my YouTube channel, especially for.
people who are just getting into the sport, I get so many questions about like, what should I buy? Like, I just don't, I don't really know what I need. And I never recommend that they go buy the brand new gear because I did that as a brand new dive master. And then I spent 10 years hating my gear because it wasn't what I wanted, right? But I was too stubborn and...
I don't know, I was traveling a lot. It just wasn't like a priority to like sell the gear and get something that was more suited to me. I just kind of dealt with it because it was like, well, it's still, it's good gear. It just wasn't the stuff that I needed, right? So I always like to tell people like, try as much as you can, like with your dive buddies, try out their gear, ask what they like, especially in like the conditions that you're gonna be diving the most often. And...
Jay (16:18)
Mm-hmm.
Sarah (16:34)
then check out Facebook Marketplace because there are some excellent pieces of equipment on Facebook Marketplace where like, I've gotten gear from people who, like older divers, who suddenly have a medical issue and they're not able to dive anymore. And so they're selling all their gear and they've taken immaculate care of the stuff, right? Like it's in great condition. Obviously, when you buy something secondhand, you want to take it.
to have it looked over and serviced and everything. But like, you can really get good gear for a decent price and not be so like committed by price tag and everything.
Jay (17:14)
Yeah, I think that's good advice. I mean, the other piece of that is always. You know, what is the priority of things that I need? And I get asked that question a lot, you know, what should I buy first? What should I buy last? You know, what should, should I buy this tchotchke? Well, I mean, there's the obvious, uh, you know, if you're starting out in open water, there's the obvious, you know, you need, you need a mask. So low volume, you know, buy one, my whole thing with.
Sarah (17:24)
Right.
What's your first?
Mm-hmm.
Jay (17:43)
gear because I've done it just like you wrong is buy it once and use the heck out of it. That's always the question is like, am I going to use this before I spend money even today? You know, am I going to use this piece of equipment or is it something that, you know, I'm going to use once or I think it's cool or what, you know, whatever those things are. But but obviously I'll open water. It's mask. Get a low volume frameless mask. Right. Black skirt.
Sarah (17:46)
I'm gonna go get some water.
Yeah.
Jay (18:13)
You know is what I use and the reason for black by the way is simply as you progress in diving With light it's kind of works the same way as I black as a baseball player or football player It will pull the light away from directly into your eye and into the mask and so again, it's a little added benefit It's not reflecting the light back in that way when you start to get into low-vis situations is why we typically use it black, but again, it's a
It's a minor thing. There's a reason, but it's a minor thing. So mask, it can be, yeah, it can be for sure. But mask and fins, and fins are always just say, like, you know, do yourself a favor and buy, you know, the Twinkie of fins, you know, jet fins or slip streams or some sort of firm fin because it will help you in your finning techniques. But fin...
Sarah (18:42)
Yeah, it's a personal preference.
I can't be.
Jay (19:09)
Finns seem to be the place where there's the most quote unquote innovation in scuba. There's always a new fan and new style. And this, um, you know me, it doesn't come in black. And is it 60 years old that, that works in the design? Um, but I use jet fins and slipstreams is the only two pairs of fins I own. And then from there it's, I think exposure suit, although you, you can have a debate because if you're okay with renting an exposure suit,
Sarah (19:23)
Oh my god.
Jay (19:39)
Great, some people think that's really gross, you know, to rent a wetsuit. Other people are fine with it. It's a personal preference, so that's your call. And then it becomes your kit, so a back plate and wing and a harness. You know, I think having that, you know, you can decide between the exposure suit and the back plate and wing or BCD. I'm a big proponent of the back plate and wing. It's versatile, it's gonna last you forever.
Sarah (20:05)
I know you are. We'll see if I become a convert. We'll see. I'm still undecided on that. But, um.
Jay (20:08)
Yeah, it's really the best.
Yeah. But that's kind of my first layers, right? Of what you should get as your own. You know, you can, if you have the money, great, get tanks and all that stuff. But start with that because that's going to get you in the water. And then from there, you can rent tanks, you can rent lights, you can rent things. But then the next one up the list is regulator, for sure. I've just
Sarah (20:20)
Yeah.
Yeah, I tend to, yeah. I tend to be like, mask is number one, and I always tell people to get a mask that they'd be happy for like snorkeling with too, so that it's like a multipurpose kind of thing. And then I usually go between like having a computer or a regulator set, because for that very reason, just that.
Jay (20:43)
And like, and they're just so...
Sarah (21:09)
The rental regs can be such a crap shoot, depending on who the team is and whether they've taken good care of the equipment. So it's nice to have something that you're taking care of. And that's, I mean, you're breathing it, you know? Whatever is in that is going into your lungs. So I think that's sort of, that's where my priority is.
Jay (21:30)
Yeah.
Yeah, it's a good thought. I mean, there's a back and forth in that because regulators are widely available, whereas a well-fitted backplate and wing for you is not for rental gear. So again, you go back and forth in limited budgets, but I agree, I've had enough rental regulators just either taste gross or breathe really weird or...
It just gives you that unsettling feeling and then it can mentally affect you, right? Because then you're thinking, is this thing working?
Sarah (22:06)
Well, yeah, that's the thing. Like, exactly, exactly. And it's, especially if you're not super confident, you're getting back into diving after a long season, like the last thing you want is to have your mental game messed with because the gear doesn't feel quite right. So I guess we can, that's a good segue into like how to be actually prepared yourself as a diver to get.
back into things. And I will say just this isn't quite the same as like a proper surface interval of like no diving, but we recently talked about my cave diving experience and the fact that I went for like six years without diving in a cave. And so, and I had a lot of anxiety about going back into the cave environment. So my choice was to pay.
for an instructor to do a proper refresher with me. And I think that that's something we need to be humble and reflect, like self-reflect on like, how am I really like, am I okay to go out and go diving? Like, do I feel confident enough to do that? Or should I do the humble thing and I'm not feeling super confident? Like, let's pay somebody to make sure that I'm doing this in a safe and just...
a safe way, right? So I think that's the first one, especially if it's been a long time and you don't have a lot of dives. Just paying that extra little bit to make sure that your skills are on point. I like that. I respect that when people can do that for themselves.
Jay (23:55)
Yeah, that's a really a good one and we can go down the path here. But I also think the timing of that matters. So if you have a dive trip that's coming up, don't use your first dive off the boat with the dive master dive guide to do that. In my opinion, you're paying a lot of money to travel. You're paying a lot of money for that dive boat or charter or whatever you're doing to have a rough couple of dives the first few times you're in. Whereas in your local area,
Sarah (24:01)
Mm.
Jay (24:24)
likely there's a shop with someone who can, you know, even get in the pool with you or, or go to the local quarry or lake or whatever it is and, and get those shakeouts maybe, you know, before you actually get on the plane would be my recommendation. Cause I agree. I think their one path is, yeah, let's get with a professional. Let's get with somebody who can remind me of how all this stuff works. And, you know, it's like riding a bike a little bit, but
Sarah (24:29)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Jay (24:53)
it's advancing that because there's a lot of mental load to diving. You know, from dive planning to gas management, to just the manipulation of gear to, um, you know, direction and travel and, you know, compass, there's a lot that can mentally happen. So I echo your idea there of getting in contact with the professional, but trying to do that before you're on the dive boat in your vacation, I think is a really smart way to try to do it.
Sarah (25:22)
Yeah, that's a good point. And if you're not in that place, like say you do have quite a few dives and you've just kind of had a season out, maybe you got some new gear and you wanna make sure that it's working properly, a lot of places will allow you to pay a fee to get into the pool and just feel it out, right? Like do your own kind of check dive, right? To...
make sure that everything's working the way that you hope it will.
Yes.
Jay (25:59)
Yeah, sorry, I was sure if you were done with that thought. Yeah. No, it's a good point. And on the other end of that spectrum, if, you know, for whatever reason, like you say, you're not in that in-between space of like, no, I feel pretty confident, but I need to mentally get there. It's really interesting, this space of recall. So you have training that takes place at some point, and then there's a...
Sarah (26:00)
I thought you were going to say something. Yeah, sorry.
Mm.
Jay (26:28)
time gap, whatever that is, maybe, you know, five years or maybe got open water certified in the 80s or something, you know, and this is your first time back, obviously, in that case, go back and get your open water certification class again, right. So there's a, it's not a hard line of like, time. But how does recall work in terms of once I start to get the gear out, and I start to think about where I'm going to go diving and all these things. And there's a really interesting
Sarah (26:38)
Yeah, yeah.
Jay (26:57)
theory out there called the second brain, building a second brain. And ultimately it's not as exotic as it sounds. It really is about notes and a method of note taking. Um, and then being able to, to access the archive in your brain, you know, that, that exists, your training happened. The theory was there or the dive planning, you know, process was there, but how do you access that? And there may be triggers like notes that you maybe go, go back in.
Sarah (27:13)
Hmm.
Jay (27:27)
you know, browse through a few chapters of your open water book or, you know, in our case at UTD, go back and go through some of the course material. It's available to you. You know, once you take the course is available for the lifetime of the course, right? Or your lifetime. So go back through a couple of the videos or take a couple of the quizzes. How do you mentally kind of get to that place of preparation to access the archives of that training? Because it's not just about the motor skills of the body.
that starts to be like a bike. Right, you get in the water, oh yeah, I remember how this feels and how to kind of situate myself. But then there's the mental aspect of the diving, which is the planning and being locked in and comfortable.
Sarah (27:59)
Yeah.
I think, yeah, I feel like I use, I think the thing that works for me at least, and I tell people this too, is visualization is really helpful in that sense, where you think about it, obviously dive planning, that should be something that you look at, you probably do have notes and you can think like, okay, let's just put a scenario in place, like.
what's this dive that I want to do? Let's plan it and let's think about bottom time and turn pressure and all of that. But then the actual like getting mentally prepared, like think about going through what a dive would look like. Like what things do I have to remember from start to finish? Like I'm in the water, okay, I'm positively buoyant. I clean my mask, I get ready, or the team decides to go down.
I need to start equalizing, right? Equalizing my ears, equalizing my mask, like going through the whole thing and just like thinking about the different skills that come up, like what happens when I get water in my mask? What do I do to get rid of that? And visualizing everything I think is really helpful. And then also we have this wonderful tool called YouTube and there's a million videos out there for...
different skill sets, right? I can't tell you the amount of people who have found my channel because they had some time between their courses and they found my compass navigation for beginners video. It's a goofy little video that I shot in the dunes by my hometown, just talking about the very, very basics of using a compass underwater. And that was the thing that brought them back, right?
So there are lots of tools to only visualize, but like see it in action too on our computers or phones.
Jay (29:58)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. And there's a double edged sword in that in some ways too, because you also want to be careful and guard against trying to take on too much new information in how you've trained. So again, the balance between the archive and recall versus trying to, you know, your first dive back be a, you know, all of a sudden be an expert in the compass, like, or whatever it would be. So it's always that, like, I love visualization and I love the thought.
of walking through. I just recently, after my two and a half months, I felt some of that same like, you know, feeling even though that sounds silly to some to me, it was like, you know, okay, how does all this work? It wasn't I didn't do it yesterday. I didn't do it last weekend. And I was going off of a new boat. So a friend has a boat with a new diver, someone who I had dove with before. There are a lot of these things that were in play. And so I spent some time thinking about visualizing.
being on the boat, right, where the gear is, even sitting there on the couch and like, like you say, okay, I need to deflate. Which hand are you reaching with? You know, you're reaching with your left hand, you're gonna hold that up and just, you know, go through it. You know, physically and mentally, what would happen the phase of the dive. A lot of this comes down to what we've talked about before, people call human factors in diving. This is the mental aspect of...
Sarah (31:14)
Hmm.
Right.
Jay (31:34)
of not only yourself, but of the team and of the environment and all those sorts of things. And it's really good to walk through whether it be a visualization or if you're a checklist person writing down the phases of the dive and the things that have to happen, your checklist.
Sarah (31:46)
Checklists. Yeah, that's a great point.
That's a great point.
Jay (31:52)
Yeah, so there's ways to just mentally engage with a dive before you take it. And it, and I would say that's good practice every dive, regardless of the surface interval, if the surface is a half an hour, you know, from that side to side to think about it. Visualization is a really powerful tool, but probably you need to do more of it and more intentionally the longer it's been, you've been out of the water. Cause there is a lot of things to remember, a lot of things to do, um, that, that are driven from your brain.
Sarah (32:21)
Yeah, absolutely. And another thing is communication, I think. When you've been out of the water for a while, you're going diving with somebody else, letting that be known, right? Like, hey, I'm maybe not feeling 100% confident, like I'm excited to go, but just so you know, I have this new BCD or I haven't been diving in nine months or a year and a half or whatever. Like community.
communicating that to your dive buddy or your dive team is hugely important so that everybody is on the same page of like taking care of each other.
Jay (33:02)
Yeah. And the flip side of that is if you see somebody who's maybe struggling on the boat or struggling at the shore, you know, sweating a bunch and very stressed out, you know, notice those signs. And it's not about judging. I think sometimes, you know, people walk up and ask the question, when was your last dive as it feels judgmental? And sometimes it is people ask that question in a very judgmental way. But I like to say, you know, in a very casual way. So
Sarah (33:26)
Yeah.
Jay (33:31)
When will it tell me about the last time you went diving? Oh, how was it? Oh, six months ago. How are you feeling today? I mean, I literally just had the situation. How are you feeling about it today? Do you wanna talk it through or what would be helpful to you? No, I think I'm good. Like I just, this one piece is a little bit cloudy for me. Okay, let's talk about that or whatever they need to be a good teammate to them. And so it's not about judging them and oh, they're gonna get in the way of my fun time and my good dive. It's about...
Sarah (33:38)
Mm-hmm.
Jay (34:00)
reading long before you're in the water, what, how that person is, where they are mentally and noticing and being a good teammate on the surface and saying, Hey, I'm here. Let's talk it through. Whatever it might be.
Sarah (34:10)
Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that because I think that's something we've discussed sort of attitudes with divers and those of us that have more experience Need like that's the attitude that I want to see from dive professionals and experienced divers that There isn't this air of like Oh, there's a new diver here. Like, uh, I roll right like I love it. I
Jay (34:39)
Mm-hmm.
Sarah (34:39)
Like, I can't even tell you, I can see nothing on a dive, but if I'm paired with someone who I know my presence and my support is going to help them have a good time and gain some confidence, like that's gonna be the best dive for me. I had an experience actually diving in Yellowstone Lake, which was like insane.
like the coolest thing, if you ever get the chance to go to Yellowstone National Park and do this, like I highly recommend it. You should only do it if you're, yeah, only do it if you have some experience because there were some divers that were very new or they had a long surface interval. And after that first dive, I was like, these people, like this isn't the dive for them, right? This wasn't...
Jay (35:10)
That sounds amazing.
Sarah (35:28)
They weren't communicated to appropriately when they signed up for the dive. Like it just, it was made, it was meant for more advanced divers. But after that first dive, we had somebody who was feeling not good. Like they did not get taken care of. They were a brand new diver. Like it was the worst dive that they had ever experienced because they just didn't feel cared for. Like they didn't feel like they had a dive team with them, that they were just kind of.
Jay (35:29)
Yeah.
Mm.
Sarah (35:57)
out there. Like there were people, obviously they weren't left alone, but they just didn't, they didn't have that connection because it wasn't established as part of the dive briefing and dive plan. And so I grabbed on to that person and I was like, please don't leave here without like, like they didn't want to do the next dive. I was like, please just do the next dive and I want to be your buddy. We're going to hang out. We're going to have a good time. And eventually they decided to do it.
And like, we did not see much of anything on that next dive because we just went in a different place and it was kind of far away and we didn't end up getting to the places where we thought we were gonna get to, which is fine, whatever. But he came up with the biggest smile and felt so good. And it's just because I was there. I was there to support and like...
just be there as a buddy. And that's, that's saying that I hope that more advanced divers will take on, that they, they'll look at those people and look at it as an opportunity and a very special thing that you get to bring somebody under your wing in a sense, right? And support them as they're beginning their diving journey.
Jay (37:23)
Yeah. And I think where that comes from is an important, excuse me, an important thing as well, because sometimes that can be ego led where I'm going to show this person how to do it. And that creates this power dynamic where what you don't want on either side of that end, if you're the diver that's had the longer surface interval, that's relatively new. What you don't want to do is say, Oh, well, Jay's got me.
Sarah (37:31)
Hmm.
Mmm.
Right.
Jay (37:53)
I'll just, you know, outsource it all to him. And on the flip side, being the support system like you were to that diver, you wanted to come from a place of empowering that other person, not making yourself necessarily more aggrandized or, and I've seen, and the only reason I mentioned that, not that you have that in that, that that's your story, but I've seen that dynamic sometimes between more advanced divers and younger divers where they're like,
Sarah (38:01)
Yeah.
No.
Jay (38:21)
Oh, well, you know, do what I do exactly, you know, follow it's the ego. And I think that is a dangerous place for both because, Hey, look, I'm an, I'm an experienced diver and I still make mistakes. And so all of us are able to make mistakes, especially when we're taking on the responsibility of caring for somebody else. And so again, if the mentally we're talking a lot about the mental game, but mentally, if that's coming from a place of, Hey, let me, let me support you and let me feel supported.
Sarah (38:23)
Hmm.
Jay (38:51)
and still be my own diver. I think that's a beautiful thing. I think that's the heart of what you're talking about.
Sarah (38:51)
Yeah.
Yeah, that's exactly what I was referring to. I see where you're coming from with the other dynamic because I've seen that too. Definitely not what I'm referring to because it's about like, it's the reciprocal bit, right? Because that's the way that divers grow is that they do feel like they're a part of the team and that they're just as important as the person who has more experience, right?
Jay (39:08)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sarah (39:24)
Like it's that power dynamic shouldn't be there because why, there's no need, right? Like sure, maybe one diver is more confident in certain skills, but like they're both, they've both gone through training. Like it just is a matter of time in the water. So yeah, I don't know. It's, I think that's a good thing. And I think probably,
Jay (39:34)
Yeah.
Sarah (39:53)
a nice way to bring up the idea that we had a couple of days ago, getting people in the water, maybe with us. What do you think about that?
Jay (40:05)
Yes. No, no, I don't think so. No, of course. That'd be great. That'd be wonderful. So you're coming into town and by town, I mean San Diego, California.
Sarah (40:15)
Yeah, I'm driving, I'm leaving Baja in like a couple of weeks and I'm driving north and I'm gonna hang out in San Diego. We're finally gonna go diving. This is gonna be the first time that we go diving. Oh man, yikes.
Jay (40:27)
We're going to do diving together. That's right. That's right. And we were thinking it'd be cool to have people along. So, a big announcement, April 7th, April 7th, which is coming up, relatively soon. You'll hear about this on our social media channels and so on and so forth, but we are going to be hosting a dive table, meet and dive. So going to meet up at Lahore shores, going to hang out with us.
Sarah (40:32)
Yeah.
Jay (40:56)
you know, whoever shows up. And then we're gonna gear up and we're gonna go take a few shore dives. And who knows how the teams will get mixed up and all that fun stuff. But we're gonna go out and have fun. Lahoi Shores is an awesome dive site. It's a long surface swim for sure, to be honest with people.
Sarah (41:09)
I was gonna say, you said a few dives, and I was like, I'm not doing more than two dives out there.
Jay (41:17)
Oh man, once you're in it, you get past that initial, you know, kick out, then you can get to it. But again, you don't have to take that dive. You can kick out shortly and you're in sand and in sand dollars, which is also cool. It's just depending on what kind of dive. But to get out to the shelf where most people go, it's a longer surface swim and there's some lineups that we use. But yeah, we invite you to come out April 7th. More details will come out in terms of time and you know, where we'll be.
Sarah (41:29)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jay (41:47)
exactly what's going to happen, but that's where we'll be.
Sarah (41:47)
Yeah, follow us on Instagram. That's gonna be the easiest way to find out information about that. I will be in the area, so I will claim a picnic table and like an area for us to hang out. And yeah, it should be fun. I think we'll probably bring some food, have some hot.
beverages, you know, coffee, tea kind of thing. I've got everything here in my van. So as long as we don't have like 40 people show up, which I don't think we will, I think we'll be able to accommodate that and have like a cool little hangout.
Jay (42:19)
Nice.
Yeah, we used to do these in Texas every Tuesday night. And it varied from 10 people to 20 people, whatever it would be that came out. And it became really fun because you can dive together, meet new people, have a cool experience. And then there's no magic to Sarah and I. But obviously, a lot of people come and say, oh, wow, the biggest comment I always get is like, oh, you don't look like I thought you would. I don't know what that means. I always want to be like.
Well, can you draw me a picture of what you thought I'd look like, you know, based on my voice? Like, but, uh, but, uh, and then, you know, you have to be a little humble cause it never comes back as you thought. But, uh, but yeah, I mean, we're just going to hang out and have fun. And the idea behind all this is not, you know, there's, it doesn't cost you anything. You gotta bring your own gear. You gotta bring your own tanks. We're not, you know, supplying any of that stuff. The idea behind this is community building. We want to build a community and it supports you as a, as a diver and get to know you and you get to know us and
Sarah (42:59)
Right?
Yeah.
Yes.
Jay (43:29)
The more that those things happen in the diving industry and in the diving world, the better the diving industry is, in my opinion.
Sarah (43:33)
Well, and especially like you have mentioned, going back to California and trying to reestablish your circle, right? Your community of divers, like this is a good opportunity if you're in San Diego and you're kind of like, oh, I really wanna get more diver friends and everything like come, come hang out, see if you click with people, make friends, and hopefully that will be the beginning of your dive group.
for the season, you know?
Jay (44:08)
Yep. And to that point, getting back to the subject at hand that we were talking about, if you're easing back in to diving, you know, these will be good dives to do that. And one of the things that I was thinking about in the surface interval coming back and all that is just keep things a little simple. You know, don't go do that big complicated dive or, you know, the for your first one or your second one, you know, keep the first dive simple, like have fun.
Sarah (44:23)
Yeah.
Yes.
Jay (44:35)
going down and seeing the sand and the sand dollars and in 30 feet of water and, you know, at a half an hour of runtime and be cool with that. And then that builds the confidence. Let's do a little bit longer or let's go see this or whatever. And I think in our dive meetup, that there'll certainly be options for that kind of diving. If you're just getting back into it, if you're feeling mentally uncomfortable or like, you're, I'm not quite sure I'm uncomfortable in that, you know, there's space.
Sarah (44:41)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Jay (45:04)
the shores to do some of the keeping simple. But in general, when you're coming back to diving after any sort of surface interval, I think it's a smart idea to keep the first couple dives really simple, simple plan, simple environment, not a challenging environment, not a crazy current or surge. Try to keep it as simple as you possibly can so that you can build your confidence mentally and build your confidence in your gear and all that stuff to then.
scale up to maybe more complex or challenging dives that you want to do on that vacation or you want to do during that season.
Sarah (45:39)
Right. Cool. Well, I think that about covers it. I think we touched on just about everything. If you have questions about the meetup or whatever, like I said, we're going to be making announcements on Instagram, but you can also email us. I think that that's okay. My email is
Jay (46:06)
J-E-Y.
Sarah (46:09)
And if you haven't, subscribe to our podcast, hang out, say hi to us. If you're watching on YouTube, leave a comment, all those good social media things.
Jay (46:22)
You can see us on YouTube now. Yeah. And honestly, if you have questions about getting back into diving or you have that feeling of discomfort or discomfort or a lack of confidence, I think Sarah and I are both absolutely willing to have a conversation, jump on a video call or something and talk it through. And I think that's so important. It's so important to pay attention to your mental game.
Sarah (46:47)
Mm-hmm.
Jay (46:49)
And so I hope out of this podcast, you know, it's not just about the gears, not just about the mental, it's not just about, you know, taking simple first few dives. It's the whole thing that gets you back into it. And every time, I don't know about you, Sarah, but every time I'm with a diver like that, or at least I know for myself, this last time that I got to go diving after two and a half months of being landlocked, it felt like you come back up from that dive, you're like, yes. You know, like.
Sarah (46:58)
Mm-hmm.
You're so funny.
Jay (47:16)
Everything feels better. And I've seen that so many times for people that have taken, you know, a longer surface interval or newer to diving. You know, there's a lot of strife and, you know, discomfort leading up to it. But when you're ready with your gear, when you're mentally prepared, when you're keeping it simple in the first few dives, almost all the time I see divers come back up and they're just like, ah, why don't I do this more often? I love this, you know, this is so much fun.
Sarah (47:42)
Mm-hmm.
Jay (47:46)
I want to do more and more and all that discomfort goes away and gives way to enjoyment. So if you're struggling out there, you're thinking about that stuff, but Meetup is a great place. But also Sarah and I reach out to us and we'd love to support you in that way.
Sarah (47:59)
Cool. Sounds good. Well, I think that's about it, yeah?
Jay (48:06)
Yeah, thanks out there for listening and any parting words there of wisdom, Sarah.
Sarah (48:10)
Go diving. Let's go, let's get it.
Jay (48:16)
It's not, it's like go team, but go diving. I like it. It's like a go verb, not noun. Yeah, exactly. Go Dodgers. Wow. It is. That's right. Let's get that in. Awesome. Well,
Sarah (48:16)
Yeah, let's go diving. Yeah, I always say, vamanos, like let's do it, let's go. Yeah, all right, I'll see you in the next one.
